Tuesday, 7 June 2016

remain


When I can I like to spend time fishing on beaches and rocks by the sea in the UK. I am always amazed by the amount and type of rubbish left in some places. I wonder how folk cannot see the implications of trashing the country side, for them.
I remember the fury expressed by many seaside towns at the idea that a European council could enforce a new standard of beach and sea water cleanliness with sanctions for those authorities who did not comply. Now the beaches are clean.
I remember when I couldn't buy a cycling crash helmet, any where in the UK, for my young son who was to ride in a kids seat on the back of my bike. I found one in Germany on my first attempt. It is clear the Germans had a better view of childs safety in that context than could be said of the culture here. A small example of how we might benefit from membership of a diverse community with different values.

I remember this Tory government wanting to deconstruct the human rights acts formed in Europe. Yes, we have always maintained a bill of human rights of sorts but, when former government ministers repeatedly lie about UK complicity in the torture of alleged terrorists, alarm bells ring. I suggest it becomes necessary to look at the stops and checks that limit the worst excesses of our beloved leaders, of any political colour. Our current membership of the European community ensures that our government is monitored, as are all it's members. With out this authority who would we appeal to when our own justice system fails us?
There have been countless occasions when the European Parliament has decreed that new and some older UK law is flawed, undemocratic and impacts negatively on UK citizens rights. It is said, by leave campaigners, that leaving the European community will bring more democracy and justice. Why don't I believe Boris Johnson?
There are arguments for and against EU rules that affect life in the UK. There is need for reform and for taking out the Kafkaesque nonsense that all government produces but if I listen too long to the out campaigners leaders I sense new darkness and the coming of a right wing, claustrophobic, Little Britain, narrow, isolated and mean.

Recent rainfall and flooding in France tells us that global warming is here to stay unless we work together. Not one European leader has the answer nor the will to do much about it. I expect like all serious potential threats government faces it will be almost too late to solve the problem when the penny drops that the only solution is collective. The only forward is by combining resources and working from the same plan. The threat to our ecology has reached a critical stage and is probably the most challenging problem we all face. I say this knowing that apparently millions of Brits think that immigration is the big issue. They are wrong. Controls have to be made. Reforms have to be made but make no mistake, the problem does not lie with the immigrants and refugees, but with those who want to conserve the ethically bankrupt sytem that governs who gets what. I suggest that ethos will not be overturned by coming out of our European partnership. It is more likely that the ethos will be come more entrenched.

We hear the expression charity begins at home. It seems to me that it is usually said by people who think that as a nation we give too much to outsiders and or foreigners. They have no concept of the value of diversity and it seems they are mainly concerned that they don't own enough stuff. They will never achieve satisfaction via the ownership of yet more stuff. Their stuff will never make up for a hole in their lives or bring them the happiness they seek. They don't seem to have the ability to understand just how bizzarre it is, that while one man wants new windows for his home and a new car, another wants some where he and his family can be safe and drink clean water.
This is a reality that will only be changed by a collective and not by separation. At this time I do not believe that a UK government of any colour can be trusted to run this country with out some stops and checks. I do believe the fears expressed regarding the financial cost of leaving the European community have some validity but I am more concerned about the possibility of a Boris lead society, politically estranged from its near neighbours.
I REMAIN yours truly.





peace

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

There is enough in the world for everyone to have what they need; people's greed won't change whether we are in or out of the EU. The 'REMAIN' Campaigners are trying to tell us that we don't care about our fellow humans if we vote LEAVE. Well WRONG on that one. Charity should begin at home if that is where it is most needed. The remain campaign are trying to suggest those of us that want to leave are racists! Wrong again! Neither side is telling the truth & we are left with the choice between an oversized Telly Tubby or a Thunderbirds puppet to guide us & run the country!

My choice is to LEAVE the EU BUT I may be as childish as our leaders over it & abstain on June 23rd!

The one good thing to come out of it is people who may not ordinarily group together & interact have done so as a result of the referendum - that gives me hope for people & that my friend is also a collective! Whichever way it goes come June 24th there will still be people like Dave & Lee who I met the other day; they came to me for food as they are homeless & those who buy 'stuff' will be doing so in my local shopping Mall......,

I think the people will vote to stay in - I hope they don't but I don't think the turn out will be high. Most people I meet I have tried to engage them in conversation on the subject. People I meet in shops, on railway stations etc; nearly all say they find it really confusing & their faces have that look that says. "I doubt I'll bother."

Sally

Anonymous said...

Abstain? You should vote out if that is what you want. Edgar's piece thought provoking as usual but you have clinched it for me Sally. I am voting remain.
Cheers Jim

mike from albuquerque said...

Unless you want a two year Flash recession and a move to the right,please vote to stay in.

Anonymous said...

Edgar we saw you at HRH fest. Had not seen or heard from you for years and there you were. Fabulous and bang up to date.

Re EU referendum you are spot on Mike. A move to the right is inevitable if we leave EU and much of the EU protection of workers rights and more will disappear. It might need reform but EU as is is better than a country governed by the Little Britain mentality with the draw bridge raised. If we leave it is highly likely affable Boris the right wing wolf in sheep's clothing will prevail.
Regarding charity beginning at home I say ONE WORLD and we must give some thing to those with nothing where ever they are from.
Jacky and Tom

Anonymous said...

“May I take on the suffering of migrators and may my body transform into whatever they find beneficial”

One sutra, in reference to the life story of the Bodhisattva

Anonymous said...

Mark Bellinger sums it up nicely on Youtube by say it really is a choice of whether you want a poke in the eye or a kick in the face!

Sally

Anonymous said...

Nonsense. Let Boris in and we will all rue the day. Does any one think the homeless and the needy will benefit from leaving the EU. Cameron is a pussy cat compared to Boris who would take austerity policy to the limit. If you don't wish to vote thats your choice but please no more hopeless negativity.
Jim

Anonymous said...

Do you think the homeless & the needy will benefit from staying in the EU? That was actually the question my partner asked MEP Jean Lambert last night at a REMAIN meeting! She said that (as did all the panel), this was the responsibility of the government of this country NOT an EU issue! The panel agreed with one exception, the token Trade Unionist who was part of the LEAVE campaign! My partner has always been a REMAIN vote to my LEAVE vote until last night; now he is having a rethink based on the whole evening NOT just that question! We raised the question of renationalisation of, for example, the railways! We talked TTIP & to all these questions the answers were in opposition to what I see as a FAIR Britain! We even asked what impact LEAVING the EU may have on our town & were told 99.9% of people working at Gatwick Airport wanted to REMAIN! Er? Was that the question! My friend Jill ex original Greenham common lady, chair of our anti-racist & interfaith organisation said she was appalled at the behaviour of our MEP & a Turkish lady got up at the end & asked where do we as 'people', that is 'everybody', go as a community after the 23rd; whatever the result! The Police sat at the back of the Hall watching! I will vote; I will vote LEAVE. I am not voting for Boris or Cameron I am voting whether to REMAIN or LEAVE the EU! After the meeting many came up to chat to me & I said I felt the campaign on BOTH sides had been shoddy & largely crystal ball type speculation; many said the whole issue went over their heads. Quote Buddha I will quote the Bhagavad Gita but we had all better pray we are making the best decision on 23rd of June! Apologies if I have offended anyone by metaphorically shouting Tesco whilst in Sainsburys but I thought diversity was ok in here!

I have an opinion that is all - I don't know, NONE of us do! Some were doing the IN/OUT originally some of us are referendum virgins BUT we are ALL human beings!

Sally

edgar broughton said...

Jean Lambert is correct. The needy and homeless are subject to Government policy not EU policy but if we leave Brexit Boris and his gang will do less and cut more. If as all major fiscal institutions claim, there will be massive deficit if we leave, who do we think will bear the brunt of new "savings".
Does any one think there will be less immigration if we leave? Even some eminent Brexiters don't think so.
Do we need an outside authority to police human rights, ecology issues and living/working conditions in the UK? Have we benefited from this within the EU. It was EU directive that forced councils to build housing where each room must receive sufficient daylight. No small thing and this is one of countless positive directives we have benefited from.
Peace in Europe since World War 2 has been largely possible through the EU. Putins shrinking empire has been partly brought about by the influence of the EU and the desire of former soviet satellite countries to join it.
Would working conditions for "hard working British people" improve or slowly get worse? Who thinks that leaving will give us more opportunities and maintain our rights?
The idea of leaving the EU seems retrogressive and parochial. I agree with previous commentators in so far as I cannot help thinking that leaving signs a move to the right and all of the piss poor nationalism that comes with such a move. Travelling around this country recently, sounding out opinion, I feel this is the biggest danger to the UK at this time.
We are all human. We are all flawed and of differing capacities and abilities and this question is difficult for many of us but we are all entitled to our opinions and to exercise our right to vote how we wish. What a wonderful thing that is!
So, I say participate. There is still time to look at the whole situation and decide. The evidence you need is available. For me there is no contest. I want to go forwards not backwards.

Anonymous said...

I come in peace Rob & I am grateful for your reply! You are more politically engaged than me & I respect your views, & everyone elses' (despite some of their rather atatvistic left wing rhetoric). We all see & hear things how we do! We all think we have listened to both sides & taken one; the right one according to us! I am no different & have wrestled this one! Is it really Cameron vs Boris? Ok I would rather have Boris as Prime Minister! I would rather not have a Tory government BUT if I have to; give me Boris every time over Cameron because I do not believe he is more right wing than Cameron! Yeah hes on the make; the celeb politician with the messy hair BUT they are [politicians] all out for their own aggrandizement corbyn (I voted for him), is no different! They will all be kissing & cuddling after the 23rd just like John Major told us all what a jolly good chap Neil Kinnock was AFTER he resigned; Maybe David Icke has a point after all

Thankful we live in a democracy! If I get blocked from here I will know we don't! Lol!

May the best Man (woman & child), win out on 23rd.

Sally

Peter Pool said...

Rob, so glad to read your comments. Always thoughtful and reasoned as ever. I have tried to distance myself from some of the arguments that have limited effect on me and concentrate on those that I know a good deal about. So on the matter of science funding (my job) and environmental policy I firmly believe we must stay in. I too fear the move to the right that is creeping insidiously across our nation. Maybe, just maybe the tragic event yesterday will bring some to reconsider where they stand.

Anonymous said...

Time to stand together or fail.REMAIN.

Potty-Pott said...

I have to disagree with you on Remain. My one point for Remain was the HUman Rights Act for stopping the cuts for sick/disabled people, but have the EU used it to stop thise pernicious cuts, or people having to pay the Bedroom Tax no. I think the EU is a vile undemocratic organisation. Wouldn't it be better to plough the money spent on remaining into the NHS or helping our own homeless. Immigration is just one issue, if the Leave vote wins, then wont it be up to us to negotiate with the countries concerned. I gather if every Eastern European were sent back to their country of origin , certainally overnight care services would be in chaos. I've just started a p/t job with Mencap that's helping learning disabled adults with shopping, cleaning, cooking and social activities. The manager is Indian, is another support worker a Muslim lady of Asian heritage, I know that as she was wearing a hijab, Poles and fellow English people, and they seem a friendly bunch (I only started this week) . I think when it comes to immigration yes I do see a need, but needs controls. BUilding new houses round here, but I gather there won't be better roads or a rail service, more schools or doctors surgeries to cope with demand.

Anonymous said...

Don't look at what the EU hasn't done but what it has. The leavers are always going on about sovereignty. We have it. Cameron and Osbourne make the pernicious cuts. The Tories decide what cuts are made. If we leave you will see even worse cuts and extreme right wing little Islander politics.
Nico
x

Peter Pool said...

The turkeys have voted for Christmas.

edgar broughton said...

Indeed they have. Selfish, ignorant and disastrous.

Anonymous said...

Sad to see so much hate & vitriol; bullying & sour grapes from the Remainers! Even more sad to see as isn't this the democracy we all want? You are calling a huge sway of the 'working class'; the 'ordinary' people, selfish & ignorant & that quite frankly is downright offensive to people; people who come from the same place. They wrestled over this, I know as I canvassed for Vote Leave. It could have been Remain & I wouldn't have jeered & called them that 'lovely!?!' four letter word like the Londoners did to Boris today! What is this mob rule? The people have decided; we have to go forward & keep fighting for those who need us to! I believe Leaving to be the right choice & I am lucky to live in a country that gives me a choice. Nobody told me I would come up against such verbal abuse by exercising my freedom to choose!

You equally choose whether to publish this.

I wish you peace

Sally

edgar broughton said...

I remember thinking that people who first voted for Thatcher were also selfish and ignorant but I don't censor comments here nor remove comments. Feel free to write what ever you like. The damage is done.