Monday 8 August 2011

the reckoning

london burning

So it has begun. The actions of the few just described by Teresa May as “ Sheer criminality”. These are the kids who don’t count. These are often the children of parents who don’t count, who never did and have no expectation that there needs will ever be addressed. Years ago I spoke about an underclass that would one day bite back. The song Night Hogs, on the EBB album Super Chip, refers to an underclass outside the norms of a civil society and from a future that has arrived. Where do they come from?
They come from deprivation and they are disenfranchised and disenchanted. They are the kids who cannot read or write well nor negotiate in their own language. They failed at school because the system failed them although they were required to attend by law. They live in the streets and they are regularly abused by clumsy application of the Police stop and search process that demeans and alienates young people, especially if they are black. This summer the effect of government cuts on the provision of services for young people has had a disastrous effect.
These are kids who live in a society that is often deeply divided with regard to its opinion of the legitimacy of government policy. If they look to those who lead what do they find? They find hypocrisy at the highest level and corruption in abundance.
NATO trashes a village in the desert, by accident but they argue that collateral damage and friendly fire will always be an inevitable product of war. Government licences dodgy arms deals to dodgy regimes and are party to the torture of innocent people, detained as suspected terrorists. Government closes youth services and services to the poorest and most vulnerable of us all and those responsible are not accountable to any one yet, but they will be. While most people will condemn the actions of the few in London and else where we will look back at these events as the beginning of the back lash that will defeat this government and it's devisive aims. The term " not fit for purpose " was never more applicable than it is to the ConDem coven.

Don’t misunderstand me I cannot justify or approve of this destruction nor the violence but I understand it and the well spring from where it flows. I have worked with some of these young people and I know that their actions today are the inevitable response to years of feeling unequal and hopeless. It is not enough for politicians and others to simply condemn the rioters. It is essential that we all recognise that the government dismantling of the structures that cement a society together and policies that alienate a generation must be reversed.
While playing at a FDPFAFDW on Saturday evening I sang Red Star which is a song about the Brixton Riots. I said, as I have done recently when announcing the song, that I thought we might be close to a similar outpouring of frustration and resentment that lead to the riots in Brixton. By the time I got back to London later that evening, parts of Tottenham were burning.

It is frightening to see how inept the Metropolitan Police are and in the final analysis they must be reformed still further and better trained. Government plans to get rid of more than 1,900 police in London alone. Saving money? I doubt it and I will be amazed if this and other government cuts don’t lead to huge enforced expenditure to address the issues caused by the current cuts. This government is making the poorest pay the most. How can this be fair or strategically viable?

We will hear the condemnation of the rioters every where in the media and every other sound bite will tell us that the there is nothing wrong with peaceful protest and that this is the democratic way. Where did this ever get any one in recent times? Only recently the ConDems were working on a law change to further limit the power of democratic Trade Union action. I was at the Student Fees protest demo in Westminster. Nothing changed. A million people marched against the worst excesses of the cuts. Nothing has changed but Teresa May is on the telly again. She is telling us that every thing will be done to bring the rioters to justice. I don’t think the rioters care any more. That is why they are here right now. A quarter of a mile from here at Clapham Junction the rioting has just begun.
It is so sad to see my adopted city in flames. It signals that the time to identify and address the real underlying causes is now.



peace 




57 comments:

Anonymous said...

Lets not delude ourselves,we all know who these people are. They are criminals,thugs and gang members,nothing more,nothing less. They are scum so lets not pity them or try tp justify their foul behavior.

Anonymous said...

Nonsense and there are too many of them to ignore. I doubt you know any of these people or who they are. Get real no one is justifying their behaviour and certainly not Edgar but he makes some really valid observations about causality. Why this and why now? Is it co-incidence. I think not. We have to ask ourselves why? What made them like this? They were born here, educated here. They are us. Why do they not have respect? Time to find out?

Anonymous said...

Which came first? Were they always "scum"? Call some one "scum" or treat them like "scum" and reinforce it via poor housing and poor job opportunities etc and this is what you get. White people live in the new ghettos. This is not just a black thing. Labelling them as thugs and criminals might be convenient and accurate but it won't help in the long term.

Mary and Bob

Anonymous said...

Why would so many youngsters reject what make most decent people happy? Because they don't have it in the first place. Because they are very unhappy. They kill each other with knives and guns. They hurt. They are lost.
The gap between those who have the largest portion of the pie and what these kids can expect today is enormous. Big society? JOKE!!!

Anonymous said...

'Turning and turning in the widening gyre, The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold, Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceromony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.....' (W B Yeats)

Sally

Anonymous said...

Drenched in the apathy of exclusion
I grope at the idea of equality while saturated by confusion
Is hope just a far away dream?
Or is it the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen?
I stand ready to answer the call of destiny
But it's through a shattered glass I see
Willie C Robinson Sr

Anonymous said...

Touchong words by Willie C Robinson Senior! I am guessing you are a black person so these words mean a lot to you as you can relate to the struggle of the black community.

Anonymous said...

Like the first post i feel that England is being dragged through the gutter by these vermin. Call in the Army and deport them all.

Anonymous said...

To which country or camp would you deport them?

Should we also deport the bankers whose vandalism has cost a lot more than these riots.

Your suggestion sends a shiver down my spine. It is dangerous and as ludicrous as a rioters justification for looting.

Aktivo

Anonymous said...

Id deport them to Serbia or Bosnia where they would fit in with the other thugs and punishers.

Anonymous said...

There are kids from all cultures chucking bins at the windows. It's not about race - it's about kids having no stake in the future. I'm not excusing the vandalisation and destruction of people's property, obviously that's disgraceful and inexcusable and we have laws to deal with it.

But, poor parenting, poor education, no jobs - this is what you get.

I've just been listening to a Nobel Prize winning economist who says that the polarisation in our society it at it's very worst - 25%of the wealth goes to 1% of the population.

The banks have nicked a substantial part of the rest and all the houses have been bought by the 'buy to let' merchants.

So, no job, no chance of buying a house, never have a pension, no hope. London burns.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Paul by the Sea.

Anonymous said...

What I want to know is why black youths burnt down a block of flats leaving 27, mainly black, families homeless because a black youth, Mark Duggan was shot? Surely that is like saying (example only), 'my baby died in hospital due to neglect by the staff so I am going to kill the rest of my children and whilst I'm at it I will go and get myself a nice laptop and flat screen tv.' Then I will turn it around and say 'Actually it's really about the fact I have no future or no job.' Yeah and very unlikely I ever would if I had killed my children or looted shops. No do not deport them make them put right what they have done. They want to behave like dangerous animals chain them up like dangerous animals. There is a brilliant calypso song which says how blacks are often called monkeys, now bear in mind this song is written by black people, and it says:

'Human don't you call my name; Human you should be ashamed for the things that you say and do no well thinking monkey would ever do' It also has the line in it, 'A monkey would never use a gun or a knife.'

The problem I have is there are too many of these self made white therapist types who feel it is in some way cool to always come down on the side of the blacks, it in some way makes them 'multi-cultural' These are generally the people who use terms like 'Mixed Race' as that is PC and wear jumpers made from the nasal hair of Indian mountain goats or the like. But there is only one race and that is the human race (unless there are little green men up there that we have yet to meet. I do hope not as then we would have a whole other racial issue of the 'greens'. So I don't care if they are black, white or sky blue pink a thug is a thug! Incidently I am speaking as one of those so called 'mixed race' people.

It is easy for those away from the troubled spots or those able to grab a bag and go somewhere till it blows over to play the Freud or Jung but what about the disabled, the elderly - housebound people, (black or white), scared witless by these modern day Droogs?

No I am sure they were not born that way but was Gary Glitter born that way? Or Adolf Hitler? What turned them and do we care? Do any of you have any sympathy for them? I know I don't!

dave from mansfield said...

Watch the footage,there are whites,blacks Asians all at it. Flog them all.

Anonymous said...

Flog them all? And then we slide into the abyss.

"What I want to know is why black youths burnt down a block of flats leaving 27, mainly black, families homeless"?

A good question and the answer is a vital objective.


Sam

Anonymous said...

I'm with Dave from Mansfield. Flog them all.

Anonymous said...

Yes flog them all. They are disgusting. For those who feel sorry for them,why dont you charter a plane so they can follow Englands games abroad.

Anonymous said...

How can you term it an objective? People's emotions are bound to come in to it.

My first suggestion is with regard to the 'black' issue, that 'whites' stop pretentiously pretending they know how blacks feel because they have watched Roots!

Anonymous said...

Some of theese people are in their 40s + what kind of example are they setting and you wait the bill for all this will come out of our pockets. Paying for the damage in London and elsewhere. Paying to house these thugs in prison where they probably eat better than most people those that still have a home to eat in.

Anonymous said...

yobs in £100 trainers communicating on £300 smart phones and the talk is of cuts and poverty open your eyes you comfortable middle class socialists,real hardworking working class people dont commit or justify these actions.

Anonymous said...

Well said.

Anonymous said...

Real hardworking working class people have a stake in things like you do. This isn't a class or a race thing.

If you think the answer is to flog people you are no better than the rioters. I was going to ask who of you would be prepared to do the flogging but I guess I don't want the answer.

Lets have the army in and while we are at it lets bring back hanging.
Deportation! Great idea.

Some of you should calm down and let your own angst die down before you express your selves so violently. If we can't get a handle on the causes of this it will continue.

Anonymous said...

Best comment by far totally with you on it all. The comfortable middle class socialists won't open their eyes they don't want real socialism they just want to talk about it.

Be interested to hear Steve Broughton's take on all this.

Anonymous said...

Well I don't imagine Steve Broughton would want any one flogged.

Anonymous said...

Some of you just want to hit back ... just like the rioters?
No solution in that.

Jen

Mike from Albuquerque said...

Nobody has the answer because we all feel different about things What i know from experience is that Britain has the most violent thug culture and we see these people everyday.These people are evil,just like the rioters

Anonymous said...

A thug is a thug.A criminal is a criminal .A rioter is both these things. Can I make in any clearer for anyone?

Anonymous said...

A thug is a thug.A criminal is a criminal .A rioter is both these things. Can I make it any clearer for anyone?

Anonymous said...

Yes you/ve made it clear twice. And of what value is that?

Why this? Why now? What shall be done, apart from flogging people and arguing about what is politically correct?

Recently the Met cops went to the LAPD to look at gun crime and how to deal with it. They were told unless you deal with the underlying issues it will get worse. CLEAR ENOUGH?

Anonymous said...

Ive just returned from living in the States for 10 years. These pussies wouldnt dare venture outside,let alone riot if they were facing US Officers.fLOG THEM AND HUMILIATE THEM. They are bottom feeders and scum.

Anonymous said...

Nice! Perhaps you should go back there.

Anonymous said...

It's not about sympathy for people running amok intoxicated and bouyed by mob psychology, it's about understanding and facing up to a much wider reality - I thought Robs post made that clear throughout. It's too easy to unite in condemning a few whilst shying away from having a good honest look at what our so called society really is for maany of the people that live in it.
I am not an advocate of violence in any form, though of course I understand that we all have the potential given the right circumstances (each to his/her own 'right circumstances).
I'm reminded of a time at school when I was about eight (and the 'outsider' in that I had come from another school). The school bully got almost the entire playground to follow me round chanting my name. These were mostly kids that didn't know me well but there were also some that I had befriended. After a while I sat down with my back to the wall my head in my hands, they crowded round, it got louder and louder until I snapped, leapt up and knocked the big bully fucker on his arse. Silence. I ran to an empty classroom and sat there crying until a teacher came in and asked me why I was upset. I remember being very clear about my feelings and told him I was sad that I might have hurt him and worried that I might be in trouble. I wasn't in trouble and I didn't get bullied again for years, but I understood the mob and its cruelty and lack of any moral. This happened in a little Methodist primary school in Canterbury in the late 1950s. We'd never had it so good apparently.
The mob is anyone anywhere and this isn't what we should be focusing on. Remember the Mods and remember the hundreds of their peers who stood by watching while Rockers were thrown into the sea at Margate and Clacton. Let's see now - 500 Mods to 50 Rockers. Smashing up Cafes and seaside shops. This is not new.

I challenge anyone here that wants to flog/deport/ etc.. as a solution to 'the problem' to do inner city youth work for 6 months and then come back to this blog with the same view. I'll gladly send you a signed photo of my old road bike if you still hold the same view. Alternatively if you come back with a new understanding ahaviung done positive youth work I'll cycle to your house and give you a big hug.
I had a bit of a screwed up childhood but thank Griff I didn't grow up on the 20th floor of a block of flats with 2 sisters and a younger brother and a mum who new someone called my dad before he walked out (if he ever walked in). There but for the grace of - go I. If you had a happy childhood filled with country summers and a big family that looked after each other, think yourself lucky that choices and chances in life so simple.
A BBC page I found interesting which has parallels with Rob post IMO - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452

ramble over

Luv n' Peas (One World One Day)

ramblinmad x

Anonymous said...

A riot is the language of the unheard.

Martin Luther King Jnr.

DAVE DENS said...

iT SOUNDS LIKE THE TALES OF THE RIVER BANK TO ME.

Anonymous said...

Succesive governments in the last 40 years have let us down, Conservative, Labour, or the 'government' we have no - that no one voted for. Labour econonmic crisis, Consevative social crisis it goes on and on. We are bombared daily by the media of how we should be and what we should buy, but on minimum wage most people dont have a chance. The government recently invested £46m into youth unemployment in the UK, but - according to the press- it cost the country £1.7bn for the wedding between Wills and Kate two people we will never know. No wonder we are pissed off. Theres got to be a better way!

Peter Greening said...

From the pain comes the dream
From the dream come the vision
From the vision come the people
From the people come the power
From the power come the change

14 Black paintings by Peter Gabriel ( printed without permission)

Anonymous said...

flog them,deport them etc.who are these people.That is no answer,we have to ask ourselves why this is happening.They are disillusioned ok,but rioting is not the answer.many people in this country have had hard and deprived lives,living on low incomes,let down by the education system,did they riot? no,they got up off their arses went out and made their lot better,you may not get the job you really want, but any job is better than no job.there are jobs out there. Also where are the kids parents in all this,youngest arrested was 11 years old, why was he/she even out there.Rioting is not the answer,please stop blaming everyone else for your problems ,at least try and do something to help yourself,this can be a wonderful world but we have to make an effort and stop expecting everyone to do everything for us. mick

Anonymous said...

sanctimonious old out of touch extream lelf wing socialists in there cosy little worlds always the first to voice there well troden ideologies whilst on a path to nowhere, they blame the police for everything and retire to smugnessville to sing there poignant little songs grow up and look at real life.

Anonymous said...

Fascists can't spell.

Anonymous said...

very far from fascist, out to denigrate others opinions are we, sorry about the spelling mestake darling.

Anonymous said...

They can be quite sophisticated but are usually very ignorant....and they struggle with punctuation. They know what they mean though haha!
I'll bet he had to look up the word poignant and I reckon Edgar is laughing his socks off. It's enough to make you feel quite superior 'aint it?

Bill

Anonymous said...

"Out to denigrate others opinions are we"?
And you are not? Don't ridicule if you can't take it. Make a suggestion fascist. Make a contribution or shut up.

Anonymous said...

listen to yerselves punctuation spelling ex teachers are you, sounds like you are into a bit of bulling too, carry on with your Sycophancy to the glorious leader,i got me dictionary out again.

Anonymous said...

I always said that some good hippies would one day make bad Tories and here you are, the anonymous advocates of flogging children.What reactionary nonsense! No ideas or positive suggestions but you can whine for Britian can't you?

Better to be Edgar Broughton than Monkey Man. Is that sycophantic?

Thank God for Paul, Ramblin and others and for their compassionate insight.

Angela

Anonymous said...

Only one person has ever used the word 'darling' before!

Anonymous said...

I don't think Monkey Man is very PC do you?

Anonymous said...

PC? Why not? It might be a little harsh on primates.

Anonymous said...

I was asking Angela as she put the post which I found rather racially loaded. Though you could of course be Angela! Gosh it's all so damn confusing quite fun trying to work out who is who though just like a little party game. I think the giveaway is in memory and remembering specific words like 'darling'.

Anonymous said...

Ive read all 47 comments.I have to say theres only one solution,the Army,Rubber bullets,detention, deportation and victory over the people great Britain has to aplogise for. Pond life.

Anonymous said...

Racially loaded? Don't be silly.

If the Army comes in its goodbye international reputation and no Olympics. Rubber bullets would be met by real ones and so on.You can't deport British Citizens. Most people know that and the majority of rioters are British.

Your conclusion after reading all this is indirectly part of the problem and why we are in this mess.

Anonymous said...

"Gosh it's all so damn confusing quite fun trying to work out who is who though just like a little party game".

Who are you?

Anonymous said...

are you a looter too?

Anonymous said...

Who am I? Ask an expert!

Anonymous said...

I am not 'racially loaded' comment and 'I've read all 47 comments' comment I am 2 different people. But if you were qualified in the field you would know that!

Anonymous said...

I have to say that I fully agree with Anonymous :-)

ivan of warwick (uk) said...

....not been very well Rob , hence very quiet..
...but with all this I am worked up enough to sit and type..
1st, to answer some of our anon posters : (some have been answered but I still want to comment ) "Anon"...call in the army & deport them all ! - who ? and where to ?.... London perhaps , or were they all illegals ?
"Anon"... send them to Bosnia & Serbia to join the rest of the thugs ! - are you certain that all Bosnians and Serbs are thugs then ?...you seem a little out of touch my anonymous friend ? .... "Anon" (and also an idiot on Question Time) , take away their dole and make them pay for the damage ! - you are surely under some illusion as to the amount of money these people get ? ..... "Anon"...and the back from the US bods who feel that the US police would show us how to deal with rioters ?...Rodney King for example ?

......... okay, so now for my take on this.......... sure , I don't condone looting etc . but as Rob explained succinctly , there are underlying problems that have fuelled the fire..... okay, I agree with that, but I also see that where possible , the people identified should face a penalty for their actions. But the knee jerk response is totally out of sync. and inept in the way the justice is being meted out in a totally imbalanced way..... for instance - one person , stealing a £1.35p bottle of water was sentenced to 5 months in prison , while someone who took two sweatshirts @ £120 ,having spent two days in police cells was sentenced to ....yoou guessed it...two days ! and released !............ nowI know some will say "but both were criminals convicted of stealing" . but surely common sense ought to prevail here............ and even more disturbing was the case of a mother of two children , who slept through the nights disturbances and did not leave her flat, but her flatmate came home and gave her a pair of shorts.... she was given a 6 month prison sentence ! Who pays for her keep' who has to pay for the two children to be looked after ? ...it's fuckin' lunacy , no thought given to any consequences...... as thoughtless as the trouble itself !

PTO

Ivan of Warwick said...

...and now I'm going to point a finger to another direction as being a cause for the start of the trouble, some of you ain't gong to like this , but you will not be able to deny it.......... the root cause of sparking off the trouble was the shooting of a man on the previous Thursday....... originally thought (allegedly) to have fired on the police , a bullet lodged in a police radio (later found to have been a bullet that bounced off the dead man, from a police firearm)was he was killed. The police stated that the death was "regrettable" ... this was not a good choice of a word because it seemed to give it the element of being a mistake, which was exactly how the family read it, and as such they asked for an explanation. For 3 days they were totally ignored and were obviously unhappy at having no information as to their sons death.... 3 days !.. so still confused and unhappy they went to the police station to seek an answer.... they stood peacefully outside for five hours, with no communication from within............ the trouble was then sparked off as unconnected people could see that they were being ignored, and they took up the cause which then developed into the lawless carnage we witnessed for several days........ now I'm not saying that was their reason for looting etc , it wasn't , but that was the catalyst !

The police said "we approached the demonstration of the dead man's family in a "DIGNIFIED" way "......... that "dignified" way meant .. locked the doors of the station and ignored the family hoping they would get fed up and leave. ..... if they had spoken to that family in the three days prior , they would not have even been there on the Saturday !.... if they had even, after a couple of hours , invited the family into the station to talk to them (if only to tell them the son was armed and dangerous etc. )then they would at least have felt "listened to" , then they would not have been stood outside becoming a focal point , and un-noticed would not have led to what followed............ so, the Police officer who made the decision to be "dignified" and ignore a grieving family must surely shoulder some portion of blame for the millions of pounds that the event has cost.........a less hard-nosed approach would have prevented this...........for those of you who cry "hindsight" , I say no....forethought , and empathy was not employed....

Anonymous said...

.......bring in the army ?... do you want to be another Syria, or Tunisia , or Libya , or even Egypt..........the arab spring has turned to winter....what has been achieved in Tunisia or Egypt...nothing , is what ... silence from Tunis , and Egyptians are realizing that the only change at the top is that of names , the west is satisfied with the outcome, the baying for Mubarek to go from MZ. Clinton is a headline that only sounds like a change..... the clampdown on our streets is no different to what "we" cry out against elsewhere, and similarly it,s lob-sided.... our leaders claim crimes against humanity against Gaddafi & Assad , but the silence is deafening concerning the all too real humanitarian crimes committed by Israel , who seem to be able to kill with impunity. We need to step back and look at everything in a truer light , but our voice is not ours is it, our only real expression is to shout, riot and loot ... only then do they listen to us , but even that goes against us...... the financial criminals hold all the winning cards.....while we bet blind in the poker game around us.....
...the last post mentioned the lady who slept and woke up into a nightmare of prison ... today she was released ...correctly, but the cost to tax payers who can't exploit loopholes is growing daily .... the hang 'em , shoot 'em , knee jerk unbalanced sentencing will be challenged time and again to even more cost......... and the revelation that community workers in Tottenham persistently warned that trouble was brewing if the shooting was not diffused with dialogue only goes to show that it didn't even need hindsight... I must agree that the police ignorance towards the people was at fault too !